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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 10, 2005 10:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Grateful Dead: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?


QUESTion:
Is there a live or studio version that sounds similar to- the Anthem of the Sun midway through side 1 space "And So We Leave The Castle"?
T. Constanten nailed the psychedelic peak with that piece, and I wondered if it was captured live.
The spinning top on the piano wires would be a key element, as would his involvement.
If there is anything nearly identical in flavor like that early experimental space, a precursor to more technological space pieces that the GD developed in later years... LMK!



This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2005-07-08 19:39:58

[subj edited for clarity- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-07-10 17:05:39

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Poster: US Blues Date: Jul 8, 2005 11:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

TC played an electric organ in concert. To my knowledge he never palyed piano, prepared or otherwise, in concert. Notably TC joined the band in late 1968, and stayed thru January 1970. The music had evolved quite a bit from the "Anthem" style by the time he joined, since that was early 1968.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 8, 2005 12:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

So, unlike much or most of the other tracks, TC's piece on Anthem was recorded in the studio... much to the horror of engineer Dave Hassinger (see the doc. Anthem to Beauty).
Is there is an extended version or outtakes from Anthem?

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Poster: US Blues Date: Jul 9, 2005 4:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

It's pretty easy to hear the sonic difference between the live and studio tracks on Anthem- Cryptical Envelopement, for example, is a studio recording. I have never seen extended tracks, nor any real out-takes. I would recommend the Jan/Feb '68 shows, the November 1967 Shrine shows and DP 22, these are the shows used for the live segments of Anthem. Great stuff, BTW, and most of it sounds good considering the vintage.

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Poster: Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios Date: Jul 11, 2005 12:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

Yea I agree w/ the other posts here.You will have a hard time finding that in the "live" Dead archives.I am a fan of that sort of thing also but the Dead abandonded that kind of experimentalism pretty early.Plus, Tom was the only keyboard player they ever had who was schooled in John Cage/Fed van Hove/Cecil Taylor style and as earlier stated he never played piano live.What a shame.
If you really want that kind of thing you need to check some of the avant garde of the day.Hell, there are a lot of people still doing that kind of thing just not the Dead.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Jul 11, 2005 9:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

The live archives include a few early GD studio sessions, rehearsals and outtakes.
Previously unissued live and studio rarities have been found
such as the various 1966 oddities, the longer versions of several songs from the Dead's 1967 debut album and more...
Perhaps eventually something more will turn up from Anthem as well.
Among a collection of mostly jazz records such as Ornette Coleman is where I first found Anthem of the Sun in 1970, it was the only rock album the music teacher I met then had.
She only liked the one piece onAnthem (And So We Leave The Castle), of course I enjoyed it all but I did play some of her other records, a few were pretty out there such as Sun Ra.
I noticed a similarity between the Alligator drum solo on Anthem and the percussion on her Black Orpheus soundtrack LP.

Then again, the first Dead show I saw had Miles Davis on the bill.
It was all a plot to get us into jazz!


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Poster: Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios Date: Jul 12, 2005 11:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

Hey Cream Puff,
I discovered the Dead through one of my jazz head friends that told me they were the only rock band that did any true improv in the maner of say Miles or Ornette.I thought it was a plot to get me into rock.Oh yea, it worked.

This post was modified by Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios on 2005-07-12 18:40:18

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Poster: Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios Date: Jul 12, 2005 11:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

I can't believe I didn't notice what you said the first time I read your post.Did you really see one of those 1970 Fillmore shows w/ Miles and the Dead?
Man you got to tell me about that.If I could have been to any show in history it would have been 3/7/70.Miles was doing most of Bitches Brew live during that tour.I would die a happy man if I could have seen that shit.
Jimi

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Aug 27, 2005 3:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead: We leave the Castle Fillmore -April 10, 1970

Yep, other than attending an opera in Mexico City, 1963 (and my debut on a live stage performing "Puff The Magic Dragon" solo/accapella at a Columbia Boy's Club summer camp in 1963)...

Flash Forward, to Friday night, April 10, 1970...
That awestriking Miles Davis/ Dead show was my very first live concert - and it was a mind bender to be sure...

I was a junior Lowell HS pupil, unstoned that eve, yet getting the experience of a lifetime.

It was gratifying to learn later that Miles Davis appreciated Jerry Garcia's musicianship - an honor not lightly given to caucasion instrumentalists by the hard-nosed (and rightfully so) MD...
They all played well that night, as I recall...
and of the 20+ GD shows I've gone to from April 10, 1970 up to the bash in the GG Park for Bill Graham with John Fogerty guesting - the finest shows I saw of those scattered smattering of a long strange trip I barely touched the surface of;
for me, have to be the 1970 shows I caught of the GD at the FW and WinterLand (the night Janis died, me and friends were there - living it up one last time with the Airplane and Quicksilver before that news was out and the locals learned that the compass rose of the scene was gone forever;
There are only certain moments I still can recall clearly from that year I first decided to tune in, turn on, and pig(pen) out...
such as Miles doing a wildly intense Bitches Brew, walking on and off stage, like a man possessed, bringing from the stratosphere or who knows where sounds from his inner mind perhaps, expressed in flashes of indescribable stacatto blasts ...
I'm trying, but can't put into words what that night was like to my virgin ears...
needless to say, I've never been the same since, though I've moved on - branched out, gone retro, over, under, sideways, downbeat...
and maybe just one step, or half a step, beyond the outer limits of the twilight zone...
it all began when a fellow student was playing a tape of the GD he had recorded at the Fillmore circa early1970 or late 1969 (I noted in June that he was near the FW stage in mid-1970,) with his crude mono cassette deck in hand...
On the lawn as I was truckin' by cuttin' class to distribute Jiz Comics I was pulled over by that cool tune he was playing (I hadda ask) on his funky little deck...
it was Saint Stephen, and the opening riff grabbed me.
I didn't have to ask twice- I knew I had to hear more - and finally go to that scary forbidding post flower power era venue and see /hear/everything this familiar name from the psychedelic posters, Grateful Dead, was doing -
so, I walked up a month later into The Carousel, and the first thing I saw, that I remember like it was only 35 years ago, was a big dude-, this African-American in robes of his native land, proclaiming as he strolled near the snack bar toward the incoming hippie kids-
"I am the king of LSD!
I am the King of Acid!"

Whoah, where did my plane just land...there was still some good old fashioned hipster insanity, and I had boarded a bus with a bunch of crazies who were keeping it
UNREAL!

(one further note on the parent post of this thread, courtesy of
Dennis McNally says this in his book "Long Strange Trip": )

"Phil's friend Tom Constanten worked with them on prepared piano, in which he produced curious sounds by wedging coins (Dutch dimes were preferred), combs or clothespins in the strings. They used colored noies he'd recorded with Pousseur in Belgium, and the ringing sound in "We Leave The Castle" ... was from a tape that was cut. In Los Angeles he'd dropped a gyroscope on the piano's sounding board and almost destroyed Hassinger's hearing and sanity."


YOW!



This post was modified by cream-puff-war on 2005-08-27 10:28:53

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jul 9, 2005 5:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: And So We Leave The Castle / Anthem space -do others exist?

There is nothing better than a good Cryptical reprise... Especially the 9 minute ones...But I've always loved 6/7/70, the way the cryptical breaks down into the main ten jam. Not very spacey, just unique.

For Anthem era, nothing beats 2/14/68, 8/24/68, 2/2/68, 3/1/69. There are others, but I like those especially.